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Help for two dogs meeting...?

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Sat, 03/22/2008 - 03:03 — jharrold

I have questions about how/where I should have two goldens meet. Due to family skeds, I will be doing a road trip w/our dog to house & dog-sit for our son, who will be gone for a couple of months. (Hey! Dad's retired, & this'll give him something to do!) I want to ensure the smoothest time there, but realize there's no second chance for a first impression. I see the possibility of problems w/our Sadie; fear I'm over my head here, & would appreciate help from folks who may have done this sort of thing before. Apologies up front for the lengthy post; I thought a profile of each dog might help a bit.

Our son adopted Roxy a month back; she's three & is his first dog. Roxy is from rescue & appears a typical golden: gentle, loving, good-natured, submissive. I see no evidence of physical mistreatment (shying from hands, etc.) but I pretty certain she's been thrown at, chased w/brooms & positive she's been screamed at. (She absolutely melted the first -- & only -- time he raised his voice at her.) He is learning clicker training himself to help bring her out of her shell -- good results already -- but is hindered because she's just not food oriented. She actually leaves food in her bowl for hours, even though she's currently on a weight reduction program. The sound of a regular clicker had some sort of bad association -- it was taking forever to "charge the clicker" -- so he shifted to Pryor's electronic clicker w/its different sounds. She is now doing well w/the trill noise as a marker.

Our Sadie is nearly four, also a rescue golden; suffered significant physical abuse at the hand of her first owner. (Early on she had numerous problems, but we've worked past most of them; few people today would view her as an abused dog.) Sadie gets along well w/other dogs w/two exceptions. She won't permit mounting (no problem there, w/gentle Roxy); but she does not share. At all. She doesn't care to run w/other dogs; play keepaway, tug, or anything else; she just wants to race after any thrown object & retrieve it. (We know her history, & I'm told her line was bred to compete in field trials, so I suppose it comes from this; Sadie's the only field trials golden I've been around, so I'm pretty ignorant there.) Should another dog approach while she has a high-value item, she gives the proper (& escalating, when necessary) signals to warn off the intruder, then doesn't back down. She intends to keep whatever that possession is, regardless. Regarding food, she's highly attuned to anything she could eat. Morning or night, that rounded cup of kibble never lasts more than 45 seconds; sometimes less than 25. Outside these two situations, she has no problems whatsoever w/any well-mannered dog.

My preliminary plans:
Have a very lengthy exercise session w/Sadie, prior to first meeting.
First meeting should be off leash, also, I think; then the dogs manage themselves. But where? local dog park (neutral territory)? Inside Roxy's house? Her back yard? I tend to think bringing her to Roxy's house leaves Roxy a little more confident. (Sadie's pretty confident.)
Obviously, no food, bones, or any other eatable items around.

Ongoing:
Keep Sadie away from Roxy during all feeding.
For bones (the pet store 3-4" ones), I plan to get at least a dozen (all the same) & literally cover the floor w/them; that way, there will always be multiple ones available. Good idea? Bad?
Continue clicker work w/both; I've shifted Sadie to a different marker sound on the electronic one so I can work w/both dogs.
Use timeouts if Sadie oversteps: exiled, alone to the bathroom for a couple of minutes.
Also, I'll give both as much exercise as they can manage, especially during the initial week or so.
Constant supervision, of course, early on.

Thanks in advance to all who reply. I fear I may be in over my head w/this, but I'm the only one available in our family, & I want to do what's best for the two dogs.
John

Comments

Wed, 03/26/2008 - 10:57 — Aidan
Aidan's picture

Introducing two dogs

Hi John, thanks for giving me enough information to make this sort of suggestion. It's hard when you don't know what the dogs are likely to do.

I think your plan is great, I would only make a few small changes.

1. I wouldn't leave any toys out for the dogs at all until they're well settled in together, and then I would only leave one or two each. But for a short stay, I would have them in separate rooms or crates to play with toys given what you already know about Sadie.

2. You've got the right idea with the initial meeting, but in my experience you're better off walking them on-leash if they have reasonably good leash manners (have someone there to walk Roxy with you). Walk on-leash to an area where they can hang out off-leash safely for a while. Don't over-do it. Then back on-leash and walk back home. You can walk right inside with both of them then if all went well.

Also see How to Stop Food Guarding for more information on the resource guarding issue.

Regards,
Aidan
http://www.positivepetzine.com

Thu, 03/27/2008 - 01:02 — jharrold
jharrold's picture

Resource Guarding

Thanks, Aidan. This may stray (did I say that?) into the topic of dog park behavior, but I would appreciate your thoughts in the area of guarding, as I tend to think what I'm seeing now is normal dog behavior. Sadie's guarding is almost entirely gone, when people are involved. Our last Golden was a Delta therapy dog; my goal is to qualify Sadie, so I've done a lot of the necessary work in this area: kibble held in hand; between fingers; removing food bowl; hands in it, blocking access; requiring a release to go to a treat, & so on. People are no longer a threat. (People are now good; they give her treats; also throw things to retrieve.) Her behavior problem -- & I'm not certain it actually is a problem -- is that she doesn't share w/other dogs.

For example, if another dog began to approach when she has a ball between her paws, she gives proper sequential warnings (freeze; lip curl; then growl; more teeth displayed, etc.) for the other not to approach. Nothing occurs, unless the other dog ignores these warnings then tries to take the ball. In this case, she responds w/the ritualized aggression: a snarl; quick move toward the offender; then permit him/her to disengage. I know this is frightening to the average dog owner, but I've watched closely & it seems quite deliberate & is actually restrained; a lot of smoke & noise. I suppose you could call it a manners lesson, I expect, for a dog who overstepped its bounds. Should she lose her ball to another, there is no attempt to retake it by force. She won't approach; allows the other dog to continue possession; simply watches & waits for it to be left, then retrieves it. Also, Sadie properly ignores transgressions committed by puppies/adolescents -- behaviors she would never permit from an adult dog.

I do not see this is as problem behavior. After all, why should a dog have to give up her possession to another, play chase or tug when she doesn't care to? Their owners aren't expected to give up wallet, cell or car keys to a stranger at the dog park; wrestle w/a stranger, or play tug-of-war, are they? Why should their dog?

I only had six days to evaluate Roxy, but I don't see any potential for conflict. She's quite gentle, & there's no way I see her as being willing to battle over any object. She'll simply give it up, so no problem there. Sadie is pretty calm if she gets a hard 800-1000 yards of retrieving daily; Roxy requires less exercise, as of now, but is getting stronger in her new home & I will continue lots of exercise for both. (That won't hurt me a bit, either. In "Fitness Unleashed", one author defines the absolute best fitness tool: a leash, w/you on one end & your dog on the other.)

About toys: you recommended I only leave a couple out for the dogs, once they're acquainted. I would've thought it better to have numerous choices, therefore an acceptable second choice, if one dog had something the other viewed as desirable. (Not disagreeing here; just trying to understand the "why". I find that if I can absorb a concept, I can apply it in different circumstances.)

Again, thanks for your help. Things should certainly go smoother now. Add me in as another devoted reader of your 'zine.

John

Thu, 03/27/2008 - 13:42 — Aidan
Aidan's picture

re: Resource Guarding

Hi John, I think you've got Sadie figured out. I like your 'wallet, cell or car keys' analogy :-)

My Goldie, Django, won't give up a ball for another dog. He is perhaps a little less expressive, but no more permissive. I've never worried about it, and frankly, it's one of those 'natural law' things where I don't really care if it upsets anyone else.

If a fight were likely to start, and now that I think about it, it's never come to that in nearly 8 years, I would just put the ball away if another dog came over and avoid the issue. I suppose if a 'mugger' came up to Django and insisted on stealing his ball he would just hand it over, Sadie might have a bit more fight in her?

800-1000 yards of retrieving is a great way to exercise a retriever. I wish more people would take advantage of that, so many dogs are limited to whatever exercise their owners can manage.

A little creativity goes a long way, and more often than not a dog will make it very clear how they would prefer to spend their energy! I am quite fit at the moment and I struggle to flatten my dogs batteries walking or running with them. Nose-work is a good option, and some time back I vowed never to give my dogs a free meal. I've broken that vow a couple of times, but generally they have to do SOMETHING to earn dinner, even if I just hide it around the yard.

The idea behind only leaving one or two toys out each is so that they only get what they've got. They don't have to try and guard anything else, or make any decisions about what they've got. It's very unlikely Roxy will try to take a ball from Sadie, and vice-versa. But, if there are several toys in the room one of them might decide they want to 'own' more than they can keep their paws on. Does that make sense?

If each dog is in their own little corner with their own toy, assuming they are 'normal', they are happy. Put a spare toy in the middle of the floor that they both want, and who gets it? One of them will take ownership, leaving their other toy available. Then what?

I'm not saying that is how it will always pan out. There are dozens of toys stashed around my yard and there is never a problem, but I can also leave my dogs with bones and not have to worry. But if I were being cautious, and I was certain that they could be trusted with toys around each other, it would be one toy each.

Regards,
Aidan
http://www.positivepetzine.com