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Jumping and mouthing

Fri, 05/02/2008 - 14:35 — tobytupper

I have a 6 month old golden retriever. I am having a very difficult time stopping the jumping up and mouthing (or grabbing clothes) behavior. I am using clicker training (after first doing traditional puppy training classes, I switched to positive training). She is very smart and learns other things quite quickly but the jumping and mouthing is a toughie to stop. I keep trying to figure out what she is getting from it that is so positive. I try to ignore but since she also mouths and grabs on that is hard to do. I will put her in her crate for a short time out and she does get better but will go right back to it when a new person walks in or after a bit of time has passed. It also happens sometimes when I have been training and then stop and tell her "ok", "go play", etc.. It is almost like she is frustrated or upset by having to stop and will start to jump and grab at my hands, treat pack, etc. I will tell her to "sit" and after some of the jumps she willl and look up waiting for a treat. I try not to treat exactly as she sits since I don't want her to learn "oh, I jump and then sit to get a treat"
Anyway, just wondered if you had any more ideas... the jumping is not good but the grabbing/mouthing that goes along with it is more annoying.

Thanks so much!

Comments

Fri, 05/02/2008 - 17:26 — Aidan
Aidan's picture

re: Jumping and mouthing

>> the jumping and mouthing is a toughie to stop. I keep trying to figure out what she is getting from it that is so positive<<

Good! You're looking in exactly the right place. If it is happening, it has been reinforced. That is a law of operant behavior that you can bank on.

The tough part about this sort of behavior is that it is often very easily reinforced and your dog will meet all sorts of people who will accidentally reinforce it regardless of what you do.

Controlled set-ups can give you opportunities to set her up for success with a variety of people. I have used them very effectively in some tough cases.

Extinguishing the unwanted behavior by ignoring the dog is one side of the coin. The other side is to reinforce the correct behavior. Where the reinforcer has been attention or petting I like to use THAT as the reinforcer for sitting, as it is more effective.

>>I will tell her to "sit" and after some of the jumps she willl and look up waiting for a treat. I try not to treat exactly as she sits since I don't want her to learn "oh, I jump and then sit to get a treat"<<

In understand that you have probably been told that could happen but the chances are so slim they are almost completely negligible so long as you are reinforcing the correct behavior and extinguishing the unwanted behavior.

Here's the plan:

- you stand with your dog on leash in an open area
- you must be completely neutral. Just stand still, don't say anything, don't do anything. You might as well be a post (in fact, you could tether her to a post in some trials if you want to be the person approaching)
- have your friend approach slowly from about 12 paces away, when dog is jumping around or pulling on leash, friend stops still and doesn't look directly at dog
- when dog is standing on loose-leash with four paws on ground or sitting, helper moves forward slowly
- when helper gets to dog and dog is still on four paws or sitting, helper may pet dog or play games.
- if dog jumps up or mouths helper briskly turns and walks away

Both you and helper must be like machines, you being completely neutral and providing zero feedback, and helper reacting very quickly to changes in dog behavior.

Write back if any part of this is unclear.

Regards,
Aidan
http://www.positivepetzine.com

Tue, 05/06/2008 - 12:33 — tobytupper

Thanks Aiden, I have been

Thanks Aiden,
I have been trying the ignoring and it will work eventually if she is on a leash. The problem is it does not seem to carry over to the next time. There are also times she is not on a leash and starts to jump and mouth and I put her on a leash and then (if I am outside) I actually tie her to a tree and walk away for a few minutes. She stops and is fine when I come back but will then sometimes start jumping and nipping again as soon as we start moving again. Sometime she is fine and sometimes she will do this for a few times before she settles down. I seem to have a hard time getting her to stop and settle or sit once she starts to jump. She will jump up and grab at my hand and arm and it is not possible to ignore her.

She also does the grab and jump thing if we are having her get down from the furniture or the counter. Again, sometimes she gets down and is fine but then another time she will react by jumping and biting at us.

She is like that poem about the little girl with the curl...when she is good she is very good but when she is bad she is awful! I know she is 6 months old but I am getting nervous that this behavior will not go away.
Thanks again

Mon, 05/12/2008 - 13:21 — Aidan
Aidan's picture

OK, follow my plan exactly

OK, follow my plan exactly but start with your dog tethered on a 6' leash. You are the person approaching. do this alone.

Your timing must be very good for this to work quickly. Start moving immediately whenever 4 paws are on the ground - that is all you are looking for. The INSTANT that changes, STOP dead. Don't look at her.

Do this 2-3 times a day for 5 minutes each time, at least 4 days a week.

When she is PERFECT - when you can approach and pet her without stopping and all 4 paws stay on the ground the whole time, then you hold the leash, remain completely neutral (do nothing, say nothing, don't look at her, be LESS responsive than the post!), and have someone else approach as you were approaching.

Important point - this is a SELF-control exercise. This is not an owner-control exercise. You can't DO anything other than ignore unwanted behavior and reinforce wanted behavior. If you try to DO anything you will only end up reinforcing unwanted behavior (the exact opposite of what you want).

So you need to train smart. Set her up for success. If you can't hold the leash, tie it off to something. This is not something you do in RESPONSE to unwanted behavior, it is something you do PROACTIVELY to avoid unwanted behavior. Do the best you can to follow these recommendations in day to day interactions, but know that there is a process to follow and until you've made more progress your day to day interactions won't be ideal.

>> The problem is it does not seem to carry over to the next time <<

It does, but your expectations might be higher than the reality.

What usually happens is that you get just a little carry-over from one training session to the next. It happens a little faster each time, or you can take a few more steps each time before stopping. That is the progress you are looking for which tells you that the process is working, but it's a 10 steps forward, 9 steps backward type of progression from one session to the next.

>>I know she is 6 months old but I am getting nervous that this behavior will not go away.<<

Good, I hate giving free advice to people who aren't motivated to follow it.

Regards,
Aidan
http://www.positivepetzine.com